Chat with Joe Ross
U.S. Chat log from: Wednesday, October 6, 2009
Live Chat with Joe starts Wednesday at 8.00 PM U.S. Central Time! |
| limasierra88 | Hi Joy. I remember you. (no music notes on keyboard) |
| Joy | Hi lima, welcome back! How are you? Joe is usually here by now... maybe something came up. |
| streetsamurai joined. | |
| Joy | lima: If you have a few minutes to wait, I am sure Joe will join us shortly. |
| Airtime250 | Joy: Are you getting excited for the conference and your mentoring session with Joe? |
| limasierra88 | No problem, Joy |
| Joy | Airtime: SORRY... my wireless got disconnected :) |
| Joy | Yes, I am SUPER excited to see Joe and go to the seminar. I am just sorry to miss you :) It would have been nice to meet you too! |
| Airtime250 | Very...Hopefully we will have the opportunity to meet in the futrue... |
| Joy | Airtime, yes, I am sure we will have the fellowship opportunity to learn from Joe together. Is your mind whirling with new ideas to implement after your private tutoring with Joe last week? |
| Airtime250 | Joy: Very much so. Joe has forgotten more than many of the top professionals in the business will ever know |
| Joy | WOW! |
| Airtime250 | He gave me numerous new strategies for trading that I would not have thought of on my own |
| Joy | Airtime: This is incredible! We are so lucky to have Joe. |
| mcconnell6 | air is there 1 that sticks out |
| Airtime250 | He really has the ability to teach in a practical way and has a very high level of integrity |
| Airtime250 | Mconnell: We discussed using options with both stocks and futures |
| Airtime250 | Some really neat strategies that were not complicated... |
| mcconnell6 | thats for me |
| Airtime250 | That the beauty of what Joe teaches, hed seems to know a method that will suit just about anyone |
| Joy | Airtime: That is so amazing! Joe can distill truth into seemingly simple and elegant strategies that are both flexible and true to the test of time. I just cannot stop marvel the law of chart every time when I look at a chart! |
| JoeRoss joined. | |
| Joy | Airtime: So, will you be focusing more on options then? |
| Joy | Joe: Welcome! We are so glad you are here! |
| Airtime250 | Hi Joe |
| JoeRoss | Hi everyone. Computer problems. |
| JoeRoss | I'll go extra if need be. |
| philippe | Hi Joe Hi All |
| EugeneA | Good evening Joe and everyone! |
| Joy | Joe: I hope you are doing well and computer problems all fixed! |
| JoeRoss | I'm here so they must be fixed |
| JoeRoss | Did I miss a lot? |
| Joy | Joe: That is good... I was hoping you were late spending time with family. :-) |
| mcconnell6 | lol |
| Airtime250 | Joe: I was just giving the group a brief summary of our session last week... |
| Airtime250 | Really great stuff...thanks again! |
| Joy | Joe: Yes, Airtime makes me more excited than ever for the seminar next week --- if that is possible for me to be more excited than I was already :) |
| JoeRoss | I'm excited too :-) |
| JoeRoss | Your excitement is rubbing off on me |
| Joy | Joe: Woo hoo! We will have a great time learning from you and having fun! |
| Joy | Joe: lima is back and our old friend philippe (Long time no see, my friend!) is here today --- must be a good sign. :-) |
| philippe | Yes Joy, I know,, every week I mis the chat.. too busy these weeks, satrrting new business |
| JoeRoss | I see lots of people. Hi to all. |
| mcconnell6 | HI Joe |
| JoeRoss | II had a busy 3 days with my student Clara. She was working in Iraq until recently. |
| JoeRoss | Brave lady |
| Joy | Joe: Wow! She is a brave lady! If she can work in Iraq, I am sure she has the courage and stregth to succeed in trading after your tutoring! |
| JoeRoss | Well she has started eating an elephant. There is a lot to learn when you have very little background. |
| JoeRoss | She has to learn a trading platform, software, get a broker, find the way she wants to trade, and learn how. |
| Joy | Joe: Yes, it sounds familiar :-) But she has come to the right teacher --- we are all very lucky to have you to teach us your wealth of knowledge! |
| Airtime250 | DITTO |
| EugeneA | Joe, how do you balance between “taking profits while they still exist” and “letting your profits run”? By trading multiple lots? |
| Joy | Joe: The night sessions of index futures are heading up strongly. Very interesting... do you think the short-term trend has hit a pause? |
| JoeRoss | eugene: I have an objective. If it is met, I move to breakeven. If not stopped out at breakeven, I trail a stop until I'm stopped out. |
| JoeRoss | So I trade multiple lots. |
| JoeRoss | Joy: The stock market move is completely phony. I expect it to end any day now, but I won't make a move until I see it happen. |
| EugeneA | Joe: thanks |
| Joy | Joe: THANK YOU! Yes, I am amazed every day how long and far they have kept the phony market up. |
| JoeRoss | Dow 4000 is where I think it will go on the next drop. |
| Joy | WOW! |
| philippe | yes, I think that too. why is that so Joe? Maybe smbdy is making moiney to repay the stimulus, or is there a main reason? |
| mcconnell6 | and the s&p? |
| Airtime250 | Get ready to sell naked puts! |
| Joy | Joe: Is the phony stock market engineered for the same purpose, by the same people as the gold bubble? |
| JoeRoss | mcconell: The snp will drop accordingly. |
| JoeRoss | philippe: Much of what is happening is from the stimulus money that was put into the banks. They can't let it sit and they can't lend it out, so the banks are putting the money into stocks and other assets. |
| philippe | well, the monthly move arrived to exhaustion anyway |
| JoeRoss | Joy: Yes basically the same thing is happening in gold |
| philippe | Joe, Can u share ur view re. Eurodollar? |
| JoeRoss | you have to understand that the toxic waste the banks hold globally is in the trillions of $$. Something like $700 trillion. It is crashing all around them. |
| Joy | Gosh! How can that amount ever be cleared off? |
| JoeRoss | Under the new accounting rules they are allowed to value that trash at 97% of face value, but it is really worth no more than 20% of face value. Also, they are hiding a lot of the trash by not putting it in their financials at all. |
| Joy | Joe: And now the Treasury is selling off those toxic assets to funds, which doesn't make any sense to me why any fund would want to buy them. |
| JoeRoss | II will be writing a lot about it in the next few issues of TMC. |
| JoeRoss | philippe: are you talking about the forex pair or the eurodollar debt instrument? |
| EugeneA | Joe, can you think of any spread (something minus gold) that will play on the overvalued gold? |
| Joy | Joe: THANK YOU for taking the time to write and teach us through Traders Money Club! It's been life changing to read your wisdom every week. |
| philippe | yes, why wd they sell to funds? or against tax advantages? but which fund pays tax? I dont get the why of this |
| philippe | eurodollar debt instrument |
| JoeRoss | eugene: I think the coolest and safest way to play gold is through a gold ETF. I'm using DZZ which is double short gold. DZZ is sold by ProShares. |
| mcconnell6 | in that kind of market what type of trading do you feel will work best,if there is such an animal |
| JoeRoss | philippe: the Eurodollar will stay pretty much flat. Short-term rates have no where to go but up, and the FED can't raise short term rates. They are too busy trying to force long term rates down via Quantum Easing. |
| JoeRoss | That is why bonds are starting to move up. |
| JoeRoss | mcconnell: if you mean what kind of trading can you do with an ETF, you just buy it, either straight 1-1 or leveraged 2-1. |
| JoeRoss | Andy and I have been talking about margins lately. They are so high that the little guy is being squeezed out. But the ETFs are a Godsend. The little guy can get in, never have a margin call and never have to worry about expiration. |
| JoeRoss | We are going to start advising on ETFs in Traders Notebook, or possibly start a new publication. |
| mcconnell6 | the question is more about method in any market |
| Joy | Joe: That is great news! I have been wondering if I could mimic Futures spreads through ETFs. I cannot wait to learn more. |
| JoeRoss | mcconnell: a chart is chart. you do the same thing with the chart regardless of market of time frame. I trade forex the same way as fuures or ETFs or stocks. The managment may differ slightly but that's all |
| JoeRoss | Joy: we now feel that to trade futures spreads you need a minimum account size of 20K. A lot of newbies don't have that kind of money. |
| philippe | Joe, do u have a good deal to recommend us today |
| JoeRoss | To trade in the outrights you need even more. One of my friends who is a large trader puts the minimum account size at $10 million :-) |
| mcconnell6 | what account size can you trade etf's with |
| Joy | Joe: WOW! Thank you for the new figure requirement! |
| JoeRoss | phiippe: Buy DZZ and scale into it with more shares if it falls. You want to be loaded with DZZ shares for when gold starts dropping to 300 |
| philippe | thx Joe, will check that one |
| JoeRoss | mcconnell: $1,000 or maybe even less. |
| JoeRoss | the amount will be up to your broker. |
| EugeneA | Joe: if you include EFTs in Traders Notebook, will they be swing trades like current outrights recommendations or longer-term position trades? |
| mcconnell6 | WOW so with 10k I'll be fine |
| JoeRoss | Eugene: Swing Trades and Position trades. |
| Joy | Joe: The only issue/question I have about ETFs is: I heard/read so much about NYSE being run by Goldman Sachs. Do you know if ETFs are impacted by those dishonest moves much? |
| Joy | Or does it not matter because you teach us to take advantage the move engineered by market movers through the TTEs? |
| JoeRoss | philippe: There is 3 times more gold supply than there is gold demand. The gold bubble will break soon. It is staring to become parabolic. |
| limasierra88 | Any ideas on protecting self (and savings) against a dollar that seems to be headed towards zero value ( like when the US -- that's us, by the way -- is forced to admit it can never pay its debts except with nearly zero valued dollars, which is easier politically than repudiating the debt)? However, all US citizens are bankrupted by that approach. |
| JoeRoss | Joy: I wouldn't worry about Goldman Sachs. I don't think they have much to do with what happens to ETFs. |
| JoeRoss | lima: Get yourself and your savings and all your assets out of the dollar and into a foreign currency. BUT expect a dollar rally in the near future. |
| JoeRoss | Don't anyone here believe that the US is printing money. Don't believe that any banks are printing money. The global money supply is rapidly shrinking. |
| limasierra88 | That was my addition "unless thay are not holding dollars" the real question is how to effectively and efficiently do that with current laws |
| JoeRoss | The FED is not burning up the printing presses with new money. All of the money being put out by the govt. is coming from borrowing, not printing. |
| limasierra88 | However, the US is not monetizing a lot of the bonds that they claim to be selling ... they are buying them back immediately and thus increasing the $ in circulation. |
| mcconnell6 | Joe if a chart is a chart do you have a favorate method you prefer. |
| JoeRoss | lima: I'm not a magician. I've been screaming for years to get your money out of the US. I've been telling people for years to get a foreign bank account. It's not too late. You can still go to Canada and open an account with Royal Bank of Canada and be living in the US . It is perfectly legal to have a foregin bank account. Re. money in circulation. M3 is falling like a rock. There is less and less money in circulation. |
| JoeRoss | lima: M1 is increaing. But M1 is money outside of the system. The Treasury is borrowing the money and handing it to the banks. The banks are putting some of the money into stocks and some of it back into T-Bills. That does not create liquidity. It is deflationary, and it sucks money out of the system.. |
| JoeRoss | mcconnel: My favorite method is one that wins. I have many ways of trading and not one of them is ever my favorite for very long. This year I have been writing lots of covered calls and naked puts. Now i am changing and preparing for a gold and stock market debacle. |
| JoeRoss | I intend to be double and triple short via ETFs. So I'm in transition. |
| JoeRoss | For short term trading I am using my 5 setups to day trade crude oil. |
| Airtime250 | Joe: Some of the ETF's don't seem to track the futures markets well some of the time, any tips on how to handle that? |
| mcconnell6 | Thank you |
| EugeneA | Joe: how can you be triple short gold? |
| EugeneA | Joe: is GLL same as DZZ? |
| JoeRoss | Air: I can show you stats that disprove what you are saying. They track very close to the futures the worst being 1.75 and the best being about .3 |
| JoeRoss | eugene: I don't know how to be triple gold, only double. |
| JoeRoss | I don't know anything about GLL |
| Joy | Joe: On the strategy you teach to double short gold, are you scaling on the way down (instead of waiting for a 123L) because you expect the bubble burst to be so swift that it will be hard to find entry when gold does collapse? |
| JoeRoss | Joy: That is correct. I may happen very fast and it could happen while you're asleep. |
| limasierra88 | Joe, you are aware them of the amount of bonds that are being auctioned to JPM, Chase, and GS then as "agents" for foreign purchasers, and then quietly redeemed for cash by the treasury within the week that they were supposedly "auctioned". |
| mcconnell6 | are there other markets that you can recomend for small a account size besides etf's |
| Joy | Joe: WOW! Thank you! I will get in gear right away because you are right... it will probably happen when I am happily asleep and the Europeans go crazy. :-) |
| JoeRoss | lima: I'm aware, and that, too, sucks money out of the system. It is deflationary. |
| JoeRoss | mcconnell: You can trade mini currency futures at the CME or (UGH) mini forex contracts. But there are many markets you can trade with ETFs. There are dozens of them for just about anything you can think of. |
| JoeRoss | Air: The worst tracking error for S&P was on BGZ which is Triple Long. It was .60% |
| JoeRoss | Worst Russell tracking on Triple short TNA was 1.22% It seems the double and triple trackers are the worst, but still it is neglible. |
| mcconnell6 | you are AMAZING JOE i've learned more to night than I have in months on my own |
| JoeRoss | That is very small. Nasdaq QLD double long 1.10% |
| Airtime250 | Joe: Thanks for checking...my eyes were deceiving me again... |
| philippe | Joe what seems to u a reasonable target for dzz? |
| limasierra88 | You can look up the 7E, 7B, 7J contract specs (I think those are their names, instead of 6E, 6B, or 6J) for the CME very small currency futures contracts. However, wider spreads I think, so you lose more there. |
| JoeRoss | lima: YEs, they may be too illiquid at this time. Maybe they will grow. |
| Airtime250 | Mcconnell: Stick with Joe...this is only the tip of the iceberg! |
| mcconnell6 | lol |
| philippe | buy around 16 and go to 26? |
| JoeRoss | phillipe: reasonable would be 30, better 40-50, really great 60. |
| philippe | indeed, nice potential... |
| JoeRoss | Gold still going up in Asia. |
| EugeneA | Joe, is there an alternative to Ultra short Gold EFT? Short mini gold futures contract? But it's just 3 times smaller than the big gold? |
| JoeRoss | 1050.5 |
| JoeRoss | eugene: mini gold is very illiquid. |
| JoeRoss | I believe it now trades at the NYSE |
| JoeRoss | No more at the CBOT |
| EugeneA | Thank you, Joe. Thanks for your time with us today. |
| JoeRoss | Welcome |
| JoeRoss | Sorry I was late |
| JoeRoss | But I gave the time back. |
| limasierra88 | Thank you Joe |
| JoeRoss | I'm yawning now. It's sleep time for me. |
| Airtime250 | Great discussion on Macro Economics...Thanks Joe! |
| Joy | Joe: You give more than the time --- you give us your love and wisdom. Thank you for another night of wonderful learning! I hope you will find some time to rest soon. Love and kisses to you... sweet dreams! |
| JoeRoss | Only 50 emails to answer and I can crawl into bed :-D |
| Joy | Oh noooo... no emails... bedtime for Joe :-) |
| JoeRoss | Good night all. |
| Joy | Good night dear Joe! |
| mcconnell6 | thx Joe sleep well |
| limasierra88 | GN all |
| JoeRoss left. |
Next Chat with
Joe Ross:
Wednesday, October 13 , 2009
Time: 8:00 - 9:00 P.M., U.S. Central Time.
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